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[96.60.249.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 956f58d0204a3-640c7e846f8sm1914958d50.14.2025.11.08.15.32.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 08 Nov 2025 15:32:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <036fadd5-b77a-40c5-bc0f-4b92c8e4a7f0@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2025 18:32:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 2/2] host/rootfs: Switch to systemd-udevd To: Alyssa Ross References: <20251107-udev-v6-0-176246281424@gmail.com> <20251107-udev-v6-2-176246281424@gmail.com> <87seeonw3a.fsf@alyssa.is> <87ecq8tddi.fsf@alyssa.is> <87bjlctbml.fsf@alyssa.is> <878qggtalv.fsf@alyssa.is> <02da1b19-008a-4f49-b9bb-ec1c2a2f5e1d@gmail.com> <875xbkt9wr.fsf@alyssa.is> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT In-Reply-To: <875xbkt9wr.fsf@alyssa.is> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------b49big3A7uCvb6ppM6V1btrU" Message-ID-Hash: D75XHA6D26JIOKP26ALD725WR3OWBKLT X-Message-ID-Hash: D75XHA6D26JIOKP26ALD725WR3OWBKLT X-MailFrom: demiobenour@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Spectrum OS Development , Yureka Lilian X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------b49big3A7uCvb6ppM6V1btrU Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------RsMkAzqoizvQNJDIknI6xNDx"; protected-headers="v1" From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Alyssa Ross Cc: Spectrum OS Development , Yureka Lilian Message-ID: <036fadd5-b77a-40c5-bc0f-4b92c8e4a7f0@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH v6 2/2] host/rootfs: Switch to systemd-udevd References: <20251107-udev-v6-0-176246281424@gmail.com> <20251107-udev-v6-2-176246281424@gmail.com> <87seeonw3a.fsf@alyssa.is> <87ecq8tddi.fsf@alyssa.is> <87bjlctbml.fsf@alyssa.is> <878qggtalv.fsf@alyssa.is> <02da1b19-008a-4f49-b9bb-ec1c2a2f5e1d@gmail.com> <875xbkt9wr.fsf@alyssa.is> In-Reply-To: <875xbkt9wr.fsf@alyssa.is> Autocrypt-Gossip: addr=hi@alyssa.is; keydata= xsFNBFpSgoYBEAC4xkCYidG2JlRWulUkTWcx0pHFDf3oSbb6Q872Kb3iDChWgluNVz43hva1 3xfDo9foV0GoyfGl/ycSCkXX5hlQr7ir/5FN38E7H/yY6tH8+l68iDgIOcb1qY0OYaxyg+Lz WesfFQedrmwNTbF4L1BtWzrTR5PflDdhDo5VWSguHGJFSclchcr/6UmMb/gOUN+2ElBC2TE2 EKY099phZ6DJZ2aZCsclwKIdCpZzXlEmXPAeaH5om6xo90JYv5+sFji40R0Plqec3WC+jTxy lGca6IbPdOminuUF+GvsR86eVsgh/0XNK7/zus7gyc4PuMUA1rCoeHcWOBDPgmelgCQyJGXd /bXeKuUsGoge58uc7/YNvOh1vfpD3AaEMqAyXfmmUwBnIicml74+2eOpH3Oljfs01g+DhkOB MtpVSZSgaIDvP0WG6cbAxImoUasnmNxEDNskfVmI8bsajPW9bt4z5hiP5Q9G3vE0D5HcIFdM adOz81PpOwNiUXcjtYV1PWZQ56jbSTOf8EBvsB71WwB+XgVWcPzIlY8hAykiHIO87oV3o71U JTAn1Foj7mjSADnY0deleOmar/K5jrK3wvKKM1XlB7PXcGBdkorJC+cbxVsw0ADzMw0c7bVc wEE7OFvHjQiIK1lO+lb1cvGBBY3IZxjsjZdA/VsFHFdAeYlzNQARAQABzRpBbHlzc2EgUm9z cyA8aGlAYWx5c3NhLmlzPsLBlwQTAQgAQQIbAwULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAIZ ARYhBHVzVtd5u7iIdz5BXnNszfnvUb2XBQJpALHXBQkPJNZRAAoJEHNszfnvUb2X2jEP/AqQ aafKiC7ormevgoCH4QinAKJoXAqiwOIdRK55HOvyhGWjnlzqoK4JTUFVRMR4Vat/APlkjOUk LPXKk+DCn4loFyl7BCLvsk4Xwy7WmXyfSPqjdik8/cjTv/Q4AHTYTpnx7GMC5eTS7ULmUvcf mD/JRr7NM2273Z7dkL3gOeZdnXYOQaGAIIox91qCtmnQhn+V7s3uxvcRl8I2/Qnn3S2veV03 LXSugAXSTdKRa7LBrcSm9TtC/D3qY9kStHiaiB/eAJsOQ0l5yRfax5INorE2DQgBKjbiBcnQ mTX7Rl9LW+U0ibHmKOFG8Zs+zKlmItek49cmqoGOv66RAY6dGUOHoEQgP0EUDJ8xGwActToC lOGZrzcXfrfx0CYlgqYE1VEWgSmtbTW1DBXiZIPKUMLJGhgaIHSKEjYujHd+vGytAMGKQsVQ OwgOMHYWyzAIB/Y6hZGNK8y5fxr468zX876mDdXhYo4dKA7UEOeQOlAIGobTXDRFEC7B/UAj qYbP+qmnyUohCy/Pf04cF0ucpWW2Z00sBL83lauhyQHiLze5OznvOeEkEeXQ6DsJOY0dmrsi 0NJZ1QoyYewXOPmPBNc7IesY1MjrpAnHgeAt1rgEPwTkt4NrRASsPe5JowJcc7CpIdR8eOrG hrw+bEMyoyjk7fN6Hs6MK+hVihMNhUwMzjgEZyd/yxIKKwYBBAGXVQEFAQEHQCVxoiHOlsEo NDKGCbxg4nL3E1CV0MRQCU1hPowd77h3AwEIB8LBfAQYAQoAJgIbDBYhBHVzVtd5u7iIdz5B XnNszfnvUb2XBQJpALHQBQkCT9j5AAoJEHNszfnvUb2XhSMP/0gStw42LjpjVLh+0HKWafs3 T9NJxtefYRbyu4wkkO0dss2pkl9gekZnvgktD0SzIe8AiMszs1rUWMG8zPXVWdMi7tSNm/IR WPa0XZDIoDwJY4T342nCvHeDsfoJnGg8o0nreI2djwO8sc9aeSevm60MQ9AouFBpS6Qw7f/Z LalXH4aWCCtvAO1o95lQXEoH4Lg4qnS6GxYMYi1u3IzrYdUu0By/Ccc5+AOOICgbJnpOoYQI bVDbdjMkj18JxxmpN5amOkPdiDndpzWkWm+oNhGUITYp6EuP1esRb35MgOmFGouvt5UdKpEl Egs2y5h9oR+kiiu9DhrC0UFL2CQ/HdiukCAxADKX3RE9m+mprSbvw7CsYmXUTH6WzPpvxpGx wQq7m2O7uy85u0HyVYkiWQiAfwCbEr1vrFU7gscBW+FcrLIODauovA9eZgA4d+cHRXfzsdKW u/QuVHsABh78LLIq008GcqJChSe4KHrJ5PUjkLnyp/Sshrmuyoy+DwqYky0KK4NtkaWa2o0B TFp+Kk2VCxWA8i/azPvTMzXOWNwqogISp5SwljiEx0hkyf0HvSb3gHfuGbZ+eGfWB+qy2pTD x/YriV5EfqkP+4+1cqXjasrQxyZUW0ULRke0j92Cgt+J722PIcOAb8vdSGF4AXczO+KMtNn9 wGxvGU7TX5ou --------------RsMkAzqoizvQNJDIknI6xNDx Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------gOV6DNaRmHl2yqTKjN4QWRVA" --------------gOV6DNaRmHl2yqTKjN4QWRVA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 11/8/25 17:52, Alyssa Ross wrote: > Demi Marie Obenour writes: >=20 >> On 11/8/25 17:37, Alyssa Ross wrote: >>> Demi Marie Obenour writes: >>> >>>> On 11/8/25 17:14, Alyssa Ross wrote: >>>>> Alyssa Ross writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Demi Marie Obenour writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/8/25 14:49, Alyssa Ross wrote: >>>>>>>> Demi Marie Obenour writes: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @@ -113,14 +76,15 @@ let >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> kernel =3D linux_latest; >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> - appvm =3D callSpectrumPackage ../../img/app { inherit (foot)= terminfo; }; >>>>>>>>> - netvm =3D callSpectrumPackage ../../vm/sys/net { inherit (fo= ot) terminfo; }; >>>>>>>>> + appvm =3D callSpectrumPackage ../../img/app { inherit (no_pg= o_foot) terminfo; }; >>>>>>>>> + netvm =3D callSpectrumPackage ../../vm/sys/net { inherit (no= _pgo_foot) terminfo; }; >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> # Packages that should be fully linked into /usr, >>>>>>>>> # (not just their bin/* files). >>>>>>>>> usrPackages =3D [ >>>>>>>>> - appvm kernel.modules firmware netvm >>>>>>>>> - ] ++ (with pkgsGui; [ mesa dejavu_fonts westonLite ]); >>>>>>>>> + appvm kernel.modules firmware kmod kmod.lib >>>>>>>>> + netvm mesa dejavu_fonts westonLite >>>>>>>>> + ]; >>>>>>>>> =20 >>>>>>>>> appvms =3D { >>>>>>>>> appvm-firefox =3D callSpectrumPackage ../../vm/app/firefox= =2Enix {}; >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So based on what we'd discussed previously, I was ready to just = apply >>>>>>>> this and pare down the Nix changes myself since I don't have to = worry >>>>>>>> about rebuilds, etc., but in doing so I came across this. Do yo= u know >>>>>>>> why kmod.lib is required? Is something impurely dlopening it? = Seems >>>>>>>> very strange, but I did verify that it's required for Weston to = start. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> systemd uses dlopen heavily. This allows dependencies to be opti= onal >>>>>>> at runtime. I remember strace showing that systemd-udevd dlopen'= s >>>>>>> kmod.lib. In short, your diagnosis is correct. >>>>>> >>>>>> Okay, that's a packaging bug in Nixpkgs then. (See e.g. [1].) I'= ll see >>>>>> what can be done. >>>>>> >>>>>> [1]: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/2328731ad041735a22606= 98574ce6599591f33ad >>>>> >>>>> I have looked into it a bit and am now even more confused. From wh= at I >>>>> can see, loading libkmod should be done by libsystemd-shared.so, wh= ich >>>>> has kmod.lib in its RUNPATH. >>>> >>>> According to https://wiki.debian.org/RpathIssue, only the RUNPATH of= >>>> the executable is honored. The RUNPATH of libraries is not honored.= >>>> For this to work, libsystemd-shared.so needs to have kmod.lib in its= >>>> RPATH, and udevadm *may* need to not have a RUNPATH. >>> >>> Right, so we might need to add --force-rpath to the patchelf invocati= on. >>> >>> I wonder why this doesn't affect every NixOS system, though. They >>> certainly don't have /usr/lib/libkmod.so.2. >> >> Difference between musl and glibc is the first thing that comes to min= d. >=20 > Was my first thought too, but people (including Yureka, who can maybe > confirm) have run musl NixOS systems, and I've never heard of this > problem with them. For now I think it is just best to work around the bug. 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