From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from atuin.qyliss.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E387C242B7; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 13:44:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 993) id 8367D24312; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 13:44:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DMARC_MISSING,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 Received: from fout-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a3-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.146]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A479C24311 for ; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 13:44:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from phl-compute-03.internal (phl-compute-03.phl.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2A751380331; Thu, 5 Jun 2025 09:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-03.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 05 Jun 2025 09:44:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alyssa.is; h=cc :content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1749131070; x=1749217470; bh=aqukydK22u gOPzq6Mjhh0zYP87GpH7OSvqH+/BlLyYw=; b=G8qQYhofo3A1GxQzJsLpiKtyti XJ1Tu5mcDu6prQEQF8/agmE15qnXgLZ3Jaemmb9jPj9WuHLB36bKM9YSUcvF1O3p 3zzvzbmy3Tj4/hjqKOwjRrFJ4go/89J82bXlF2ar9DteZlmVopt0gq17Sl1EoV6A dDvDXMo6aATggIiABGFHrP/xtB+ydyeWw7IDjYhDJX7PZn3cWMllm+mVXCaeaP7v fKFMIhvuffRfmbyfPfUOuq4QReXWTjPtmKH7djzp9jHwjvfeCT5uRY4lZxisv5wV m0jUogNjHXkDo25KDn6HFm48XKOqBtJDmFR2YUFxAhYLReSDV+pFl0azPFHg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1749131070; x=1749217470; bh=aqukydK22ugOPzq6Mjhh0zYP87GpH7OSvqH +/BlLyYw=; b=atTiUbJgYTgUZcXoAMlJk1rsDMFaSeDJ2GeF8NA8tiWwLHLVJHY 6Yt8lJIlnBgTkIJGd2eaTeSLtp/sh4h5EGjWqCUTymCCIXxHjFOVl9YKtyRoMgfC gjHHAt0+upQqgV5lnM1u6EUCrJLYdFI3uGUhJVp2fAwxA4W5TATRX+jx01FIav1f eglsEwG2p7kPt0qPoahjsojAqQHba4okquNyxOhaXe8Vt1Al7Z4Y/5tOq8j5FYMX gyPGGrKdUi2KWnn+wPG+cmIDThZ5sOFEQ4lO1lIhzLfP10MBCo/X4cEEKYMxV4Ms SA3J+kDt/Mpq0X+FO1Jh+fadH901FiMB2/g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtddugdefjeduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnh htshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufgjfhffkfggtgesghdtreertddttdenucfh rhhomheptehlhihsshgrucftohhsshcuoehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhisheqnecuggftrf grthhtvghrnhepleegudeijeeivedvgfduudfggfdtvdfftdethefgieevgedukeevhffg keekvdffnecuffhomhgrihhnpehkvghrnhgvlhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhishdpnhgs pghrtghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepuggvmhhioh gsvghnohhurhesghhmrghilhdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopeguvghvvghlsehsphgvtght rhhumhdqohhsrdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i12284293:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 5 Jun 2025 09:44:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sf.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 968242381748A; Thu, 05 Jun 2025 15:44:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Alyssa Ross To: Demi Marie Obenour , devel@spectrum-os.org Subject: Re: Camera virtualization in Spectrum In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2025 15:44:24 +0200 Message-ID: <878qm6cngn.fsf@alyssa.is> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-ID-Hash: 4UTOXL74UEPOR2RKMHIIJJAWSB7NWUV5 X-Message-ID-Hash: 4UTOXL74UEPOR2RKMHIIJJAWSB7NWUV5 X-MailFrom: hi@alyssa.is X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Demi Marie Obenour writes: > This leaves virtio-media and a fully custom solution based on PipeWire. > During the discussion, the possibility of hardening virtio-media against > a malicious device was considered. After the call, however, I found out > that while hardening the kernel side is definitely possible, it is also > insufficient. The reason is that virtio-media, as currently implemented, > appears to be effectively V4L2 API passthrough, which would mean that the > device can respond to V4L2 IOCTLs however it wants. Guest userspace will > almost certainly treat V4L2 IOCTL outputs as trusted, so hardening the > guest kernel would be of only limited value. Adding validation in the > guest kernel driver would be an option, but it would add substantial > complexity. I've just noticed from reading the cover letter[1] for the virtio-media spec that it looks like virtio-video might still happen: > There is some overlap with virtio-video in regards > to which devices it can handle. However, they take > different approaches, potentially making them > the preferable choice for different scenarios. Have you looked at virtio-video at all? [1]: https://lore.kernel.org/virtio-comment/20250304130134.1856056-1-aesteve@redhat.com/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRV/neXydHjZma5XLJbRZGEIw/wogUCaEGfOAAKCRBbRZGEIw/w on8YAQClkdCui0RqEpgHs7vXk6VdwAZXAmFdL4i5k2SBFjTsyAEAgdJSdfiOAvt4 EI/xAMuh/n4ctU6oCikLU8ys7wQXMgI= =WM1t -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--