From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from atuin.qyliss.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C6A3F753; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 17:12:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 993) id 3A430F784; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 17:12:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DMARC_MISSING,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 Received: from fhigh-a2-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-a2-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.153]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D31B2F782 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 17:12:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C128140030E; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 13:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 20 Aug 2025 13:12:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alyssa.is; h=cc :content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1755709927; x=1755796327; bh=g8zdg0RWI/ f7VYIKHDYVHscghmOj+agDHZlHuIgHSLA=; b=OXKOZ1ZQ+XWPrkF2tKHXoPU225 mb/goqaB3GyfuBAMd2utCQJOZdCN1FZ1rfPM0B94gvFZxzrg7aK0AkBgcbOmjIJw cWYsZ+/qzxv86g2zMraxzLAs/No8Zri5V75+eGEeyNvIsATUebkwxWru/BcBScxG tMN2kOwSql0JTp68ggbRc5qw4lX/QU2pDVjEbl3FGpjl8oXHeeF0l4O/bn2Jvv7L Zz9anrN+y50EytSWS4elIon/ViujyeaTWznAtplcoK+81fFKLGh5diUokokO9/il xsoIOl/nxN1OQqKDO/WSKEGCAJR0tMFpaGr1/qL3mOHw5fxPheVS22/ObsAQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1755709927; x=1755796327; bh=g8zdg0RWI/f7VYIKHDYVHscghmOj+agDHZl HuIgHSLA=; b=c4k4ucZPJbseqghSvZkiIVXslUXrGUkPcOaAGz1R1qxWkzT66SB eKEo5AH2r5N/TDmdUda4h9TcKlVT0qWLaq3XAaTs7uuJ41uE4MbXBxv1ckUXQLNu CCcAL7Vjw1wqIyMRh7ESrXufoHn60Wyo4WidYhuwRYSpXJasGBfDXrRZfReTI2y1 1mpL5Upl+WiF/uMcb3P9NUtTz+fdh0h3Wxh1isQbzPyiZgy1Nf1l+8kKUHJcFbwz AHnW/P4vUL0I1u0j8IhNSURjsaPUYHnUPzj4GFsGoD0HmEO+TmkNxO/OaJD0s1u7 73SVC5YtaVPOUKd8kZRKY7hIJBjg/uhJaoA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdefgdduheekleefucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujf gurhephffvufgjfhffkfggtgesghdtreertddttdenucfhrhhomheptehlhihsshgrucft ohhsshcuoehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhisheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepuefhieehhe elffeujeetveejudegtedtvdetueelhedvledtheelgeduheeuueehnecuffhomhgrihhn pehgihhthhhusgdrtghomhdpfhhrvggvuggvshhkthhophdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvg hrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhi shdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepug gvmhhiohgsvghnohhurhesghhmrghilhdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopeguvghvvghlsehs phgvtghtrhhumhdqohhsrdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i12284293:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 13:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: by rock.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 76228171AAB; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 19:11:55 +0200 (CEST) From: Alyssa Ross To: Demi Marie Obenour , Spectrum OS Development Subject: Re: Switching to udev? In-Reply-To: <5dfc8f55-43ba-40df-886c-4f372e91cbb7@gmail.com> References: <2f8aaac8-0407-41f8-86c1-caa5f8b2543e@gmail.com> <87pldnfeq8.fsf@alyssa.is> <87ikjbe9p8.fsf@alyssa.is> <5dfc8f55-43ba-40df-886c-4f372e91cbb7@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2025 19:11:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87a53tq5nu.fsf@alyssa.is> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-ID-Hash: Q57YKGMJ6LNBK3ESPCB3IRXIFSLALE2N X-Message-ID-Hash: Q57YKGMJ6LNBK3ESPCB3IRXIFSLALE2N X-MailFrom: hi@alyssa.is X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Demi Marie Obenour writes: > On 7/29/25 03:29, Alyssa Ross wrote: >> Demi Marie Obenour writes: >>=20 >>> I think libudev-zero can work fine in the VMs that have no physical >>> hardware, especially with flatpaks that can't access udev at all. >>> It's the host and VMs with physical hardware we don't have, and thus >>> cannot test, that I am concerned about. systemd-udevd is much more >>> likely to have gotten a patch from someone else to fix an issue we >>> would never run into ourselves, and which might well cost us a user. >>=20 >> Does udev upstream quirk a lot of hardware, then? That wasn't mentioned >> so far. > > See https://github.com/systemd/systemd/tree/db1e099a7aed117e3ffdb1e4c69cf= 3e37cab0fc6/hwdb.d > and the systemd issues that have the "hwdb" label. I'm not sure how much > of this is just for human-friendly names and how much of actually affects > behavior, but at least the input device quirks seem relevant. Okay, I read through the git log of hwdb.d/60-input-id.hwdb, and it does seem like these quirks will be important for Spectrum users, e.g. https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libinput/libinput/-/issues/932#note_2069967 Maybe if we manage to move stuff like input handling or even the compositor out of the host system, we can go back to something smaller like we have now, but until then I suppose systemd-udevd is the way to go on the host. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEH9wgcxqlHM/ARR3h+dvtSFmyccAFAmimAdUACgkQ+dvtSFmy ccCQKRAAkR1Z0s2hQpa3BcPoy8pODlwlWP0mpDEUAgaQWcrgmo+qM1OGWkBqf5Im mZa1e2dYTVM8MTbm4AZQowmlFNluVORDZIl+pZ1bLWAmDSyEjtpOu2z6KIlV1rWl hjfcFVf602jxAH2OIBYDYFwZ91CTQvnqfXOqqpcEMIiKkRiEdiA7bMDlOjW4fdtO pDiAmbiaxygZOtzWivDYJfgXDsGMBQKbRzENsW9QE6u0ZvGugXpIVZcFSlixDO9g dIb+QjbObMFaUcJmdQZJqTgh6VmsB2QF8lt/AShQP0zC+5wEbuDkBMgyb9gJjhXM pgNEgWK7sAAI0WOq0k5vqyOr5joJJivVC+U0djMKCQtMeweqE2xWBSAeCvWw9kne iDFFUKjLXepeEAtb+R86gQQdQ5J8pvt/T7TdVcRxGxnybODI7Uae49auOT70I5y/ gNjhIFUpsTYdvNHBn9kN3tYIAdRRzO2gqFzLcNc3NKi2LNm0sD0vqJxPBZrS9436 qgzano4G9MG6GL3XAuIKfuteWrx8zb+KSnmPYzAxPMEOSyCzkglbhRL/eTQSG3Mm ysQpay6SD6dOtoIS87q+ps46tVTUi28GFOIFfZsXKrd1dmFHclU+ega5H7uiZ8XG nRdM/nDTEHBhgsYDX2iOrWAbt2OcgZG5eRiRQvScOY1hJojoYZc= =h0TP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--