From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from atuin.qyliss.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326DB21DC8; Fri, 19 Sep 2025 18:45:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 993) id 603DB21DBD; Fri, 19 Sep 2025 18:45:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DMARC_MISSING,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 Received: from fout-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a1-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.144]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0422421DB9 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2025 18:45:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from phl-compute-02.internal (phl-compute-02.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF26FEC0101; Fri, 19 Sep 2025 14:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-02.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 19 Sep 2025 14:45:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alyssa.is; h=cc :cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1758307532; x=1758393932; bh=WfmKWhLY6V 8CoawxG3qWVVlcQUGsTkAaNbV+X62MBAw=; b=ma+wb3LSTgTuEiCozJKbuAjw3p LSPWxAivBRyiZ3P6Gf++g0jWpMhlnGZLNu+awPmqqsu42zyo/Oz/R/n2A4XVc69F P9YGxmac/3eSm720TvjJlPuI9+5zauVOU4sHz4+zT6nSRZhJ/fF7UZBGWTkNs9qN OoRFKlfXNU9tnd5ZxPVwOYqMFr8zd3fnM9bceasqwwlpc9NqFczcKUk/2j4FcWs/ KIEVmPrBJNuzDjiw8qrK64zBzqh5GZqVyh3BvnxJZxULdgLPrqcc08FbTcBU1aof TbI/aIXRqbZV3KDPBEFxeoLuHoTPAplqQ96WidyG5/KxWbs7tXCgDlSEyzOA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1758307532; x=1758393932; bh=WfmKWhLY6V8CoawxG3qWVVlcQUGsTkAaNbV +X62MBAw=; b=Ry9/Tt1MlD5ro+84cObdGwpM4WJdNCg7nsCQHNF8p7HL7H+IsIu Ssp2ukrz7pT28pOD1Lr2Rma9InNwFMvaTYP7XhIXeoV4kAWgVePQRm3HK3JyyWWr 3z56JXIwdL48F1FmeMueYUyDPlLVPbY5EQ5YYH95/tEzOTrmiOZzpXe2/HHmjziw n6ZfO2r+kjDQUresU6NPdQKK8f/jkh5HGXZFEs/7aCYpR2p/N41uYPFIe8WOFNWh o0Vli8ik8mSxcS5vNavKHei4B7d8AKArXWdlMjgdKYnb+oVwjrYmvHGrIXLSLkfR E/GUjh4hG53/NQTmLfWQU/NIKxGwAvcnHzQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdeggdegleeliecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpefhvfevufgjfhffkfggtgesghdtreertddttdenucfhrhhomheptehlhihsshgrucft ohhsshcuoehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhisheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepieduffeuie elgfetgfdttddtkeekheekgfehkedufeevteegfeeiffetvdetueevnecuvehluhhsthgv rhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhephhhisegrlhihshhsrgdrih hspdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedvpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegu vghmihhosggvnhhouhhrsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepuggvvhgvlhessh hpvggtthhruhhmqdhoshdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i12284293:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 19 Sep 2025 14:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mbp.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7C7F31FECEC7; Fri, 19 Sep 2025 20:45:30 +0200 (CEST) From: Alyssa Ross To: Demi Marie Obenour Subject: Re: [PATCH 15/20] host/rootfs: Use real less, not BusyBox less In-Reply-To: References: <20250904-systemd-v1-0-2a63b790a913@gmail.com> <20250904-systemd-v1-15-2a63b790a913@gmail.com> <875xdtjnyf.fsf@alyssa.is> Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2025 20:45:29 +0200 Message-ID: <87segiqo1i.fsf@alyssa.is> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-ID-Hash: BEVXGGSLR5KJSBGUCQTOZZPJYZDQNEBH X-Message-ID-Hash: BEVXGGSLR5KJSBGUCQTOZZPJYZDQNEBH X-MailFrom: hi@alyssa.is X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Spectrum OS Development X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Demi Marie Obenour writes: > On 9/8/25 05:25, Alyssa Ross wrote: >> Demi Marie Obenour writes: >>=20 >>> The version of less in BusyBox cannot handle horizontal scrolling, so it >>> is much less useful for debugging than less(1). As long as it less is >>> needed, it is better to have a more useful version. >>> >>> Signed-off-by: Demi Marie Obenour >>=20 >> Is it needed? > > When I was debugging, I kept getting frustrated with limitations > of Busybox less. This patch helped me quite a bit, so yes, I think > it is needed. What I mean is: is less needed at all? (I was referring to you saying "as long as less is needed".) So far I haven't added tools that are only useful for debugging to the image (although the core dump handler is an exception). I frequently use strace, for example, but I don't think it really belongs as part of the system image. less is only really present at all because it snuck is as part of busybox. I also don't want to have images used for development to differ from the real ones, because then wee can miss stuff in testing more easily. So here's an idea: what if we attach an extra block device in "make run" that includes some debugging tools, and then that can easily be mounted to get the extra tools when needed for development, while still being able to use a normal build of the Spectrum host system? --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRV/neXydHjZma5XLJbRZGEIw/wogUCaM2kyQAKCRBbRZGEIw/w op5gAQD4cnkPcaUnQ+IvechHkbE37mjLWBV+OC8UupJSLnWw7gD8Cgzg/fe7/o34 s1PKmdJbU4Tty+nMoKkxhW7Nc6YjhQ8= =uvKp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--