From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from atuin.qyliss.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F2C21A9BF; Fri, 22 Aug 2025 13:53:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 993) id 939361AA0D; Fri, 22 Aug 2025 13:53:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-26) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DMARC_MISSING,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 Received: from fhigh-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.153]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EC131A9A4 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2025 13:52:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from phl-compute-04.internal (phl-compute-04.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085997A019E; Fri, 22 Aug 2025 09:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-01 ([10.202.2.162]) by phl-compute-04.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 22 Aug 2025 09:52:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alyssa.is; h=cc :content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm2; t=1755870777; x=1755957177; bh=MOW7mYxx9d sgh3jn/yT+VPfyOdlkwl2JCc50eibFdR0=; b=HFWw6UDsLv+ber/gqWP5Kqyy7/ icY632eFXc/UHPqkLf1YfWJcfvb2UnU+7nZkr/BgMeeh3FtAP5fMPwIjs3ZzOGDK 1wo+5ovP336jxNjUS8LjYm2GmS43J2IrSexeHCm/qd4yaasijDErJXtTvMi2MUDF +9BvtdHRdzfvysOfMIyXDkRg3Q++a9tTml+4Dok7FsY4z4MeuOu+2RgE5Vhj2xjP Xk4beHzRA1Hw902+mD6D4AQvHrYtD3smWKrgpmyxovSfqeftMpbXc6HbjhGPtTxp Spy9VIUaPdccL8/QvKdvP4rgQifr/OrAEXOjnf66+JL7sWAP7HtpcFpaBZww== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t= 1755870777; x=1755957177; bh=MOW7mYxx9dsgh3jn/yT+VPfyOdlkwl2JCc5 0eibFdR0=; b=XW35OnQZVNxpyjnFwZLpjCan6/zn/tKvV00EsyFEIjDNNiEOoYq 2qDQ9PXJpDLF6SyaKVlBQYMrNaFoo/h2WHG3hq3Tt479zRuTjMqeozlnfJ6OrgSN ZspYBANERibfdYI3G+SAaJ9Fu9wBDuYliZ5swpgyWSm9j7IadO2IfMGkoE0GNEUZ 1chxuBtXQQdSXldof8Oes5/SU9FwbFP+VrKfjryxffgvK+Z6CjVtQ3LEXCj3FhIq qdQ2R4Almozco5FO0pM7nBrQ2H81FZiwfOHm5J0kFqIlNWUMZqCAU+hCQjMXFW/f KaVpjGTwHdlMZ9xWi5UqTYOs/dnOoPiopsA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeffedrtdefgdduieefleefucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujf gurhephffvufgjfhffkfggtgesghdtreertddttdenucfhrhhomheptehlhihsshgrucft ohhsshcuoehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhisheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdeuvdeivd ehhfeikedtvddvhefgheffleevueeigffgtdffffeujedujeejkeejnecuvehluhhsthgv rhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhephhhisegrlhihshhsrgdrih hspdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedvpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopegu vghmihhosggvnhhouhhrsehgmhgrihhlrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepuggvvhgvlhessh hpvggtthhruhhmqdhoshdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i12284293:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 22 Aug 2025 09:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mbp.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 49A5B144D62B; Fri, 22 Aug 2025 15:52:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Alyssa Ross To: Demi Marie Obenour , Spectrum OS Development Subject: Re: Spectrum OS management daemon? In-Reply-To: <8b76fb46-a04c-438e-9ff5-e3153ae6f53e@gmail.com> References: <157e2b88-c292-419a-b5cd-0735d1f78a59@gmail.com> <87y0rdt16v.fsf@alyssa.is> <8b76fb46-a04c-438e-9ff5-e3153ae6f53e@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2025 15:52:50 +0200 Message-ID: <87wm6vbgzx.fsf@alyssa.is> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-ID-Hash: DFLUW2QHY6H6ZQMFQXAVUVQ3TLQYRBI2 X-Message-ID-Hash: DFLUW2QHY6H6ZQMFQXAVUVQ3TLQYRBI2 X-MailFrom: hi@alyssa.is X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Demi Marie Obenour writes: >> With proposals like this, it's important to communicate why it might be >> an improvement over the current situation. All of these things are >> things we easily could do without needing a monolithic daemon. > > To me, there are a couple advantages of using one or more > daemons for this work: > > 1. It makes privilege separation easier. For instance, VMs that > crash can notify Cloud Hypervisor via a pvpanic interface, but > Cloud Hypervisor does not have the privileges to directly > inform the user of this in any reasonable way [^1]. Instead, > it should make an IPC call to a (socket-activated) service that > notifies the user and logs some information to a file, which > the user can choose to manually attack to a bug report if they > wish. But that socket-activated service doesn't need to be a daemon! It can run when it's activated, and then exit, and be started again next time a VM crashes, rather than taking up resources the whole time in between. > 2. It avoids putting too much responsibility in the GUI. Right > now, the obvious way to start an application is for the user > to click on a .desktop file, which runs the needed s6 commands > to start the application's VM and the services that VM relies > on. Similarly, the obvious way to keep track of runtime state > (like "which application has which device attached to it") is > to have the GUI store all of that. To me, this seems to make > the desktop environment itself a "god daemon", which I'd also > prefer to avoid. Oh yes, for sure we're not having the desktop environment do it. :) --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEARYKAB0WIQRV/neXydHjZma5XLJbRZGEIw/wogUCaKh2MgAKCRBbRZGEIw/w ojQEAQD6hnt7B1uWBTPTJCQ43m1dMDB6fKMe6ebsnytCMKGxJAD+O1bt+Xt8KRiq qKugU7LRac0GWMG9PwQIjzu2l/musw8= =rLPJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--