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Sat, 19 Jul 2025 13:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97b427d8-b49d-415d-a96f-a386d6f903ed@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 16:05:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: Alyssa Ross , Spectrum OS Development References: <6ab772e0-62b0-430f-8d3c-0bba79a3282c@gmail.com> <25197dbe-d642-4283-80b7-be66dcc4f4eb@gmail.com> <87jz45spqi.fsf@alyssa.is> <87h5z8r0w2.fsf@alyssa.is> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 3/3] Run PipeWire and WirePlumber in the VMs In-Reply-To: <87h5z8r0w2.fsf@alyssa.is> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------tZ3BcJLI4nguopwK5PqPYgwn" Message-ID-Hash: BS2BASS3RXXANE57BS7LVZKQ5IG4KWT6 X-Message-ID-Hash: BS2BASS3RXXANE57BS7LVZKQ5IG4KWT6 X-MailFrom: demiobenour@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------tZ3BcJLI4nguopwK5PqPYgwn Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------RtvlKn1n7FZPXaqdf1W19MWH"; protected-headers="v1" From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Alyssa Ross , Spectrum OS Development Message-ID: <97b427d8-b49d-415d-a96f-a386d6f903ed@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 3/3] Run PipeWire and WirePlumber in the VMs References: <6ab772e0-62b0-430f-8d3c-0bba79a3282c@gmail.com> <25197dbe-d642-4283-80b7-be66dcc4f4eb@gmail.com> <87jz45spqi.fsf@alyssa.is> <87h5z8r0w2.fsf@alyssa.is> In-Reply-To: <87h5z8r0w2.fsf@alyssa.is> --------------RtvlKn1n7FZPXaqdf1W19MWH Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------jJLGIdHNLNAKAeyQ2uZHKVqb" --------------jJLGIdHNLNAKAeyQ2uZHKVqb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/19/25 05:22, Alyssa Ross wrote: > Demi Marie Obenour writes: >=20 >> On 7/18/25 07:27, Alyssa Ross wrote: >>> Demi Marie Obenour writes: >>> >>>> WirePlumber is completely overkill as a session manager here, and >>>> ideally a trivial session manager would be used instead. I did buil= d a >>>> Spectrum OS image and found that PipeWire and WirePlumber both >>>> successfully started. PipeWire is configured to listen on the >>>> PulseAudio socket, so PulseAudio compatibility works. This does inj= ect >>>> a large number of completely unnecessary files into the VM, notably = for >>>> libcamera and Bluetooth support. >>>> >>>> Signed-off-by: Demi Marie Obenour >>>> --- >>>> >>>> Notes: >>>> I tested this with QEMU virtio-sound, but I am not sure if the p= aramters >>>> are correct. In particular, the sample rate might well be wrong= =2E >>>> >>>> img/app/Makefile | 28 +- >>>> img/app/default.nix | 18 + >>>> img/app/etc/pipewire/pipewire.conf | 291 ++++++++ >>>> .../etc/s6-rc/app/dependencies.d/directories | 0 >>>> .../app/dependencies.d/directories.license | 2 + >>>> .../etc/s6-rc/app/dependencies.d/wireplumber | 0 >>>> .../app/dependencies.d/wireplumber.license | 2 + >>>> .../etc/s6-rc/dbus/dependencies.d/directories | 0 >>>> .../dbus/dependencies.d/directories.license | 2 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/directories/type | 1 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/directories/type.license | 2 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/directories/up | 11 + >>>> .../s6-rc/pipewire/dependencies.d/directories | 0 >>>> .../dependencies.d/directories.license | 2 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/pipewire/notification-fd | 1 + >>>> .../s6-rc/pipewire/notification-fd.license | 2 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/pipewire/run | 20 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/pipewire/type | 1 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/pipewire/type.license | 2 + >>>> .../dependencies.d/directories | 0 >>>> .../dependencies.d/directories.license | 2 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/wayland-proxy-virtwl/run | 11 - >>>> .../etc/s6-rc/wireplumber/dependencies.d/dbus | 0 >>>> .../wireplumber/dependencies.d/dbus.license | 2 + >>>> .../s6-rc/wireplumber/dependencies.d/pipewire | 0 >>>> .../dependencies.d/pipewire.license | 2 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/wireplumber/run | 4 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/wireplumber/type | 1 + >>>> img/app/etc/s6-rc/wireplumber/type.license | 2 + >>>> img/app/etc/wireplumber/wireplumber.conf | 676 +++++++++++++++= +++ >>> >>> The PipeWire and WirePlumber config files are still very big. Is it >>> really not possible to make them smaller and rely on defaults where >>> possible? With a whole big config like this, it's difficult to see w= hat >>> Spectrum-specific stuff is going on. >> >> Both of these files are *smaller* than their upstream counterparts. >> The main Spectrum-specific stuff is: >> >> - Nodes are statically set up. This is because PipeWire relies on >> udev to enumerate device nodes, and Spectrum VMs don't have udev. >> >> - A lot of stuff in the upstream configuration files has been >> removed. Spectrum's configs should be *smaller* than their >> upstream counterparts. >> >> Neither PipeWire nor WirePlumber has much in the way of a default >> configuration. Without a configuration file, neither PipeWire nor >> WirePlumber does anything useful. Overriding the defaults and >> using the upstream configuration file might be possible, but it >> seemed unlikely when I looked. Spectrum VMs are more like >> embedded systems than the desktop systems the defaults are made >> for. >=20 > Okay, but there's still stuff that could definitely be trimmed. The > comments explaining the syntax of the config file, and the default > values, for example. I think they get in the way more than they help > because they make the actual non-default settings very sparse. > Similarly we probably don't need conditional overrides that are "only > applied when running in a VM". I'll fix this in v5 by only including comments explaining the differences= from upstream and removing the conditional overrides. >> I recommend not including any of the upstream configuration >> files and only an allowlist of SPA plugins and PipeWire and >> WirePlumber modules. Stuff like Bluetooth can also be excluded. >> Just because upstream nixpkgs pulls it in as a dependency does >> not mean the configuration in the VM actually needs it. >> Ideally, the various plugins and modules would all be separate >> build outputs with their own dependencies, and =E2=80=98pipewire=E2=80= =99 and >> =E2=80=98wireplumber=E2=80=99 would be meta-packages that pull in all = of them. >=20 > That's an interesting idea. I think it would probably be feasible? An= d > wouldn't share the same maintenance concerns as lots of overrides. I'll add that to the list of debloating tasks. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------jJLGIdHNLNAKAeyQ2uZHKVqb Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49y B+l2nipdaq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYf bWpr/si88QKgyGSVZ7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/ UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnTDlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7M MPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPxwcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9H zx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvU T1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl5FMWo8TCniHynNXs BtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2Bkg1b//r 6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 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