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Wed, 16 Jul 2025 22:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.138.10.6] ([89.187.178.201]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d75a77b69052e-4ab836572e5sm27433241cf.9.2025.07.16.22.53.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 16 Jul 2025 22:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2025 01:53:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: Alyssa Ross References: <638beeaa-2351-4f51-81a6-bc58883930c2@gmail.com> <87seiyg6w2.fsf@alyssa.is> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT Subject: Re: [PATCH v3] Run PipeWire and WirePlumber in the VMs In-Reply-To: <87seiyg6w2.fsf@alyssa.is> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------J9SZAzeVYoSP0dhg80xF0gAH" Message-ID-Hash: HHVATYEFYHAVCAJ2YNA2JABUQNFTX5HP X-Message-ID-Hash: HHVATYEFYHAVCAJ2YNA2JABUQNFTX5HP X-MailFrom: demiobenour@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Spectrum OS Development X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------J9SZAzeVYoSP0dhg80xF0gAH Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------ZLF2xuMFvh0kuc2f4EE4aT88"; protected-headers="v1" From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Alyssa Ross Cc: Spectrum OS Development Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH v3] Run PipeWire and WirePlumber in the VMs References: <638beeaa-2351-4f51-81a6-bc58883930c2@gmail.com> <87seiyg6w2.fsf@alyssa.is> In-Reply-To: <87seiyg6w2.fsf@alyssa.is> --------------ZLF2xuMFvh0kuc2f4EE4aT88 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5BdGbwJ6FEVC8RNiO03s0Iea" --------------5BdGbwJ6FEVC8RNiO03s0Iea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/14/25 10:54, Alyssa Ross wrote: > Demi Marie Obenour writes: >=20 >> WirePlumber is completely overkill as a session manager here, and >> ideally a trivial session manager would be used instead. I did build = a >> Spectrum OS image and found that PipeWire and WirePlumber both >> successfully started. PipeWire is configured to listen on the >> PulseAudio socket, so PulseAudio compatibility works. This does injec= t >> a large number of completely unnecessary files into the VM, notably fo= r >> libcamera and Bluetooth support. >=20 > Yeah, I saw this in the log: >=20 > N 14:27:54.810067 wp-internal-comp-l ../lib/wp/private/internal-comp-lo= ader.c:588:on_component_loaded: optional component 's= upport.logind [module: libwireplumber-module-logind]' failed to load: fai= led to start systemd logind monitor: -2 (No such file or directory) > N 14:27:54.811299 wp-internal-comp-l ../lib/wp/private/internal-comp-lo= ader.c:640:wp_component_array_load_task_execute_step: = skipping component 'monitor.bluez.seat-monitoring [virtual]' because som= e of its dependencies were not loaded > E 14:27:54.851210 spa.dbus ../spa/plugins/support/dbus.c:333:= impl_connection_get: Failed to connect to system bus: Failed to connect t= o socket /run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory > E 14:27:54.852143 spa.bluez5 ../spa/plugins/bluez5/bluez5-dbus.= c:6632:impl_init: failed to get dbus connection > N 14:27:54.855904 wp-device ../lib/wp/device.c:710:wp_spa_devi= ce_new_from_spa_factory: SPA handle 'api.bluez5.enum.dbus' could not be l= oaded; is it installed? > N 14:27:54.856657 s-monitors bluez.lua:411:createMonitor: PipeW= ire's BlueZ SPA plugin is missing or broken. Bluetooth devices will not b= e supported. > E 14:27:54.859091 spa.bluez5.midi ../spa/plugins/bluez5/midi-enum.c:= 805:impl_init: Creating GDBus connection failed: Could not connect: No su= ch file or directory > N 14:27:54.859810 wp-device ../lib/wp/device.c:710:wp_spa_devi= ce_new_from_spa_factory: SPA handle 'api.bluez5.midi.enum' could not be l= oaded; is it installed? > N 14:27:54.860524 s-monitors bluez-midi.lua:95:createMonitor: P= ipeWire's BlueZ MIDI SPA missing or broken. Bluetooth not supported. > E 14:27:54.861346 spa.bluez5.midi.no ../spa/plugins/bluez5/midi-node.c:= 1989:impl_init: failed to get dbus connection: Could not connect: No such= file or directory > E 14:27:54.862435 pw.resource ../src/pipewire/resource.c:255:pw_= resource_errorf_id: can't create node: Input/output error > W 14:27:54.863275 wp-node ../lib/wp/node.c:913:wp_impl_node_= new_from_pw_factory: failed to create node from factory 'spa-node-factory= ' > N 14:27:54.863965 s-monitors bluez-midi.lua:130:createServers: = Failed to create BLE MIDI server. > [0:00:01.314658075] [123] INFO IPAManager ipa_manager.cpp:137 libcamer= a is not installed. Adding '/nix/store/src/ipa' to the IPA search path > [0:00:01.321611889] [123] INFO Camera camera_manager.cpp:326 libcamera= v0.5.0 >=20 > Can we set something in a config file or something to disable this extr= a > stuff? I started work on a v4 patch, but before sending it I decided to test that not only did PipeWire and WirePlumber start, but also that I could actually play sound to a virtio-sound device I had attached to the VM. This failed rather miserably, and I finally figured out the culprit: PipeWire relies on udev for device discovery, and without udev it doesn't detect any devices. It appears possible to create devices in PipeWire via the PipeWire CLI or via the configuration file. The former would allow them to be created by mdevd, while the latter would be appropriate if the devices were known to be ready before PipeWire started. I strongly recommend using either systemd-udevd (with systemd) or eudev (without systemd) in the host and in any VM that will have real hardware attached to it. udev rules are where all the upstream work on uevent processing is happening, so it fits with Spectrum's "upstream first" mindset. Something simpler like mdevd might be appropriate for VMs that will only ever see virtual hardware with known behavior and do not need to deal with the quirks of real hardware. For the host, I think systemd is probably the right solution. It's complicated, but that is because it solves a complicated problem. Without systemd, Spectrum will wind up needing to reimplement a lot of configuration that has already been written for systemd. Also, systemd has fantastic TPM support. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------5BdGbwJ6FEVC8RNiO03s0Iea Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49y B+l2nipdaq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYf bWpr/si88QKgyGSVZ7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/ UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnTDlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7M MPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPxwcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9H zx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvU T1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl5FMWo8TCniHynNXs BtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2Bkg1b//r 6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 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