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Wed, 09 Jul 2025 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2025 13:26:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: Albert Esteve , virtio-comment@lists.linux.dev References: <20250709093456.350242-1-aesteve@redhat.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 0/1] virtio-media: Add device specification In-Reply-To: <20250709093456.350242-1-aesteve@redhat.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------j3dFF0pDGSujDU7r7y7nlKh5" Message-ID-Hash: JTWPKWFH7ZGWPB5HPDQETNA7HVQTL6Y3 X-Message-ID-Hash: JTWPKWFH7ZGWPB5HPDQETNA7HVQTL6Y3 X-MailFrom: demiobenour@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-1; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-2; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-3; header-match-devel.spectrum-os.org-4; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: ribalda@google.com, alex.bennee@linaro.org, adelva@google.com, cohuck@redhat.com, mvaralar@redhat.com, hverkuil@xs4all.nl, gurchetansingh@google.com, daniel.almeida@collabora.com, changyeon@google.com, acourbot@google.com, mst@redhat.com, eballetb@redhat.com, agordeev@qti.qualcomm.com, gnurou@gmail.com, dverkamp@chromium.org, nicolas.dufresne@collabora.com, Spectrum OS Development , Alyssa Ross X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Patches and low-level development discussion Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------j3dFF0pDGSujDU7r7y7nlKh5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0Eej9hAE802OEAIVDazl0XVU"; protected-headers="v1" From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Albert Esteve , virtio-comment@lists.linux.dev Cc: ribalda@google.com, alex.bennee@linaro.org, adelva@google.com, cohuck@redhat.com, mvaralar@redhat.com, hverkuil@xs4all.nl, gurchetansingh@google.com, daniel.almeida@collabora.com, changyeon@google.com, acourbot@google.com, mst@redhat.com, eballetb@redhat.com, agordeev@qti.qualcomm.com, gnurou@gmail.com, dverkamp@chromium.org, nicolas.dufresne@collabora.com, Spectrum OS Development , Alyssa Ross Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 0/1] virtio-media: Add device specification References: <20250709093456.350242-1-aesteve@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20250709093456.350242-1-aesteve@redhat.com> --------------0Eej9hAE802OEAIVDazl0XVU Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6lOFTHgZt06OIO9YIohcqhwz" --------------6lOFTHgZt06OIO9YIohcqhwz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/9/25 05:34, Albert Esteve wrote: > New attempt of including virtio-media > device specification. >=20 > v8->v9: > - Rebased to virtio-1.4 >=20 > v7->v8: > - Merged DQBUF and DQEVENT into the same > item for unsupported ioctls > - Rewrote/clarified a couple paragraphs > based on previous version reviews. >=20 > Virtio-media came from a discussion on virtio-dev > mailing list, which lead to Alex Courbot presenting > virtio-v4l2[1] specification as an alternative to > virtio-video. >=20 > Later, virtio-v4l2 was renamed to virtio-media[2] > and published at: >=20 > https://github.com/chromeos/virtio-media >=20 > The repository above includes a virtio-media driver able > to pass v4l2-compliance when proxying the vivid/vicodec > virtual devices or an actual UVC camera using the > V4L2 vhost device (available in the repository). > It also includes a FFmpeg-based video encoder > device. Steps to reproduce are also detailed[3]. >=20 > Recently, virtio-media has landed in AOSP[4]. > Also the driver patch has been sent to the > kernel, currently in its v2 [5]. >=20 > Furthermore, virtio-media got a proposal to reserve > device ID 48, which was finally approved for > inclusion in v1.4. >=20 > There is some overlap with virtio-video in regards > to which devices it can handle. However, they take > different approaches, potentially making them > the preferable choice for different scenarios. > Furthermore, virtio-media has matured since it > was first presented, and there are public efforts > to have upstream driver and devices. >=20 > But mainly, given that virtio-media will be the virtualization > solution for media devices for ChromeOS, Android, and > possibly others, I think is important that it gets > standardized and included in the specification, > despite the aforementioned overlap. >=20 > Full PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sDZXWVlvPbHKKguhekCXMzkpNZZ0= g3hV/view?usp=3Dsharing > PDF with the media section only: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JjOIz= ecnkFFlpFBRjPQEUyAOD3BDHAdw/view?usp=3Dsharing >=20 > [1] https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=3D2&ik=3D73ebd65ebd&attid=3D0.1= &permmsgid=3Dmsg-f:1767388565327924962&th=3D1887068940754ee2&view=3Datt&d= isp=3Dinline&realattid=3Df_libalimc0 > [2] https://www.mail-archive.com/virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org/msg126= 65.html > [3] https://github.com/chromeos/virtio-media/blob/main/TRY_IT_OUT.md > [4] https://cs.android.com/android/platform/superproject/main/+/main:ex= ternal/virtio-media/ > [5] https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20250201-virtio-media-v2-1-ac840681452= d@gmail.com/T/ >=20 > Albert Esteve (1): > virtio-media: Add virtio media device specification >=20 > conformance.tex | 6 + > content.tex | 1 + > device-types/media/description.tex | 639 ++++++++++++++++++++++= > device-types/media/device-conformance.tex | 15 + > device-types/media/driver-conformance.tex | 11 + > 5 files changed, 672 insertions(+) > create mode 100644 device-types/media/description.tex > create mode 100644 device-types/media/device-conformance.tex > create mode 100644 device-types/media/driver-conformance.tex It's probably too late, but I have some serious concerns about this device. Specifically: 1. I don't see a reasonable way to support untrusted virtio-media devices. v4l2 has too many ioctls and I can't realistically see a way to enforce that the return values from all of them are consistent with each other. It is possible to only allow a fixed format (such as uncompressed ARGB) and only allow the video source and/or sink to provide resolutions and frame rates, but this means losing a lot of performance and abandoning any attempt at zero-copy. The use-case for untrusted virtio-media devices is not confidential computing, but rather disaggregated systems where video sources (like webcams) may be attached to untrusted virtual machines. 2. v4l2 is a chatty protocol and using it implies a lot of guest <=3D> host round-trips. This is bad for performance. Is this overhead actually significant, and if so, are there plans to reduce it? --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------6lOFTHgZt06OIO9YIohcqhwz Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49y B+l2nipdaq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYf bWpr/si88QKgyGSVZ7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/ UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnTDlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7M MPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPxwcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9H zx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvU T1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl5FMWo8TCniHynNXs BtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2Bkg1b//r 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attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEopQtqVJW1aeuo9/sszaHOrMp8lMFAmhupl4ACgkQszaHOrMp 8lP4eg//TpyZ5geAb4Qr3trJ5GgcWUpaPzmLCVnKX6QMkG/wjOjYcYOn7zDVB0pe YDm016tNjsbE43KgZOoinuxfbn2sJE5027oUY8CsXmb/1qD6T8Q9LGBm+grvYorZ 9I4Z0I97RhM7IS/dBs2beH5oMohTvYWlSf9E6RuqNauFuPw6jP3TyiTuj4lgUUM6 kD+P5DgL4av8P0hSpT5fdvs+VfAIm9uQdYM64F++UUTGCg69qm3WfIbhoEf1SVDu U5UwtrlROOyA7970YG2b2kZE3Zc/abqHQupsU7o+EPbFnDScyQrhSuua+4hytS2+ xx/aEhSTbTrCuT7XC+0NZrNIqm29YxnPeHqC3BX5v47XHNdv7TNCvO7i0GvkMYVn Gs9SN/JGU/QxQGozYVMkBqGKljmXJYEwH6BxMD/k/zVibjeQSDNOmICSuXGcaw6w B/D7IL4f/jGVZgue8v5+z0eREGQwbI/ywWXhfagNrS2xQFTmUK54l/QHapK3+r9t nTSprhfxiKIa7zLGdgGzsranNKtjbhpZz9SaontRS5tCRt70OpufK+L4sANflNlX K674Z9AlQTpIFW26WbEyNkHVebhK6SdmhUmGQBSeQ8NKto6LOrl5wlWOLHM1GWWv pMHvUIB1TnPjj1fCsK1wmNmYJgozQKA301SoSIhWolwlGUw+OdU= =21m9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------j3dFF0pDGSujDU7r7y7nlKh5--