From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.6 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_PASS,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: from atuin.qyliss.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A964C361AB; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 10:38:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 496) id 3B3973620D; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 10:38:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F06FA3620C for ; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 10:38:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CD9C5C010F; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 06:38:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 09 Aug 2022 06:38:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alyssa.is; h=cc :cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t= 1660041527; x=1660127927; bh=A2TbLXnvYwNXM4+hf3LJ31CHpsSX61tNXge kxtvBxWE=; b=kYxLqjwfrkylxBNf1SkasKeeVcURH4VymIoF6NEEPD3piR7kbol eymydGf49d73cKkqZIVE6luNPidI4CnGaxrj6ZLxG8/5s2TU/c6MgQfy+m0ZomUw /0q2CmWTBimjb0OVcM5GXvW5gGvgSnb1cnrSVSSSfUCy7XQPUHEwQPjb2UudhCHR B4jnjPQz0FeHMwp44Q1uaEv6rLTlAlH39NhVXZ5oWNJlvcO115BzXa598VKxInBT CsvDLk0D0e9MlQSheJytpVuOC2JzAPVZUeLGNpjPqK0hvzg/4+39yc8F2e4z4gbD /JTil8YILtNGLjwrTAYJ2lSK7gUCMtN1wqA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1660041527; x= 1660127927; bh=A2TbLXnvYwNXM4+hf3LJ31CHpsSX61tNXgekxtvBxWE=; b=M n58wufxgE313T6+hEG1M9ludbv18ABZ367JmHvzrlSEutvV01nVdFwRfoQAZkSXC 3TRrQGCDvNZER5lUY/E5SdV8AxYkq2VTv+V5k8nKZzKucFNDVmfjr/6jIdLbcZdw 1Gotho1vGh1oc5/gFRbZlv8YaWXUJMfH9uXMobKDS9WmW2WMQCK+KvZw727f2xtG vZRmS/q47uiVbIsDhnXjJdtO9RiO5N+fL38nx1GkZxyOzJEdxaLcTakABzbT3bb5 9Zs0VX6U/Um7B5DhlIuGvk7fxlzQF7h7oROGwpAYEtCXa7JkIr9EmACnlt9lYgNB wAGEJaC9lxeORbpQsvqFA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrvdegtddgfedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepfffhvfevuffkgggtugesghdtreertddtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlhihsshgr ucftohhsshcuoehhihesrghlhihsshgrrdhisheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepiefgje elvdfhgeetueefgfffleeguefgledtffdugedugfdtgeelvdelgeeuveevnecuffhomhgr ihhnpehmtghhvddtvddvrdhorhhgpdguihgrthgrgihishdrfhhrpdhsphgvtghtrhhumh dqohhsrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhf rhhomhepqhihlhhishhssegvvhgvrdhqhihlihhsshdrnhgvth X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i12284293:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 06:38:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by eve.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BE05F417; Tue, 9 Aug 2022 10:38:45 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2022 10:38:45 +0000 From: Alyssa Ross To: discuss@spectrum-os.org Subject: Reportback from MCH 2022 Message-ID: <20220809103845.nwbn3or2jyc7rfzg@eve> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xnhculg44gkcov4u" Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID-Hash: HNROG74WPLHV5GLDAMHLV5A52D6DEDRW X-Message-ID-Hash: HNROG74WPLHV5GLDAMHLV5A52D6DEDRW X-MailFrom: qyliss@eve.qyliss.net X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-config-1; header-match-discuss.spectrum-os.org-0; header-match-discuss.spectrum-os.org-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Ville Ilvonen X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.5 Precedence: list List-Id: General high-level discussion about Spectrum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --xnhculg44gkcov4u Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was recently at MCH 2022[1], one of the big European hacker camps. We had some really good conversations about Spectrum, and I thought I'd share my takeaways here: 1. We were praised for our recent documentation efforts, both in implementing Di=C3=A1taxis[2] and Architecture Decision Records[3]. So big thanks to Ville for spearheading the latter. 2. We talked about the use case of having multiple user data partitions. This would allow very strict separation of security domains, and could also be helpful for data portability =E2=80=94 you could have one = user data partition in your desktop, and another on a portable disk, for example. And if, way down the line, we want to do really cool things like have live migration of VMs between systems, architecting for multiple user data partitions will be a big help with that too. This is one of those things where it's not difficult to do, as long as we plan for doing it that way from the start. But if we didn't do it that way from the start, and decided we wanted to add it later, I can see how we'd be in for a world of pain. So I think it's a sensible change to make. We're unlikely to regret making it, but reasonably likely to regret not having done it earlier if it becomes really important later on. 3. Something that can apparently be difficult for Qubes is having every VM have a unique, human-readable name in a global namespace. This means that, for example, disposable VMs have to try to generate a name that isn't already in use. This is especially relevant if we end up supporting multiple sources of VMs as described above. So in the short term, we should probably change VMs to be identified with UUIDs, and have human-readable names be a layer on top. Not having a human-readable unique names in a single global namespace will help with thinking about VMs in terms of capabilities. Since points 2 and 3 are architectural changes, I'll write them up and submit them as proper ADRs when I get the chance. [1]: https://mch2022.org/ [2]: https://diataxis.fr/ [3]: https://spectrum-os.org/doc/decisions/ --xnhculg44gkcov4u Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEH9wgcxqlHM/ARR3h+dvtSFmyccAFAmLyOSgACgkQ+dvtSFmy ccB8sg//XXmW7bz0WIuwzktV0JnZW9qZPPbuNbe0Qrmw9W3bGJxXNnbjUNtHPDZO KiA948p3vQdrUNJy3eNXjLGrovK1XwpSdNeDJ1C5VaddaY0DGBG/jl1cxDJn2DLu NrfuKc+csuvC5/2EwSX3cq1Vwl9uJFTV0Fsirlx+9S12ovWxfyrRAcbomMm0SOml drQMnUqddAE7jnwuXPLcmfhnc9ozec2SCd53qlB/UsES9O1Z2mLge/sXSrN4m3Pd 1Od/kw/PUHzyh8K9MRxEsUJcASO5GDobtkIfKvOBF6Qyj/jc21qF8RWFrdDTintz +GbflxRmfRoBWdZjm/3jaPXnTWVx2eMbetV6WTVloOgBTywRfvQ/kay7FAEFnJ5t mW6CcE3IwthxtNP0Mh1WgnuiFGmR1BA1Yin4KsB9G2GsETj4PQJ5p3FBs0MdUQhD Ko11ZroBRd05q3D6pT0DV31hoZrSI8lgxC/JtCzYQk3a7fERpEiUhwjswJ/OZe+d 4fycDqLK/oAHJLRyaVQXWN2Q8iEAyXwUNIz0ZMqiO8a0QmdCi1SzGrsKhSZoZG3g 0xT5iwTLRjfReDVUKKvNWdYgScIrUa5czd9Yey03ff6J2p/YzfrP+lg7GPbttPjg DqEb0AyTS4L57nw8xO9iYRavOxpQU+E4ABnXPr4hALoMNsNAoxs= =PBzY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xnhculg44gkcov4u--