From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on atuin.qyliss.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 496) id 45890273ED; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:37:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: from atuin.qyliss.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E264A27437; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:36:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix, from userid 496) id 63B3D273C7; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:36:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf1-f43.google.com (mail-lf1-f43.google.com [209.85.167.43]) by atuin.qyliss.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0A49273C0 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:36:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf1-f43.google.com with SMTP id f3so16168086lfu.12 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:36:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qt2ImZ2eYhAv4coZDaumxix6zBdtUbP5hfgaqugaakc=; b=Jq1gS5xY9uAYPt94raLirGj+35imqJj94ib5wl5AcgD7JncvRqqJ/F2fZwTilTqfgW dKA508pXDGSQ3Dwk7T/xwihSQ5g75+Z9Uzni4yeAMuqp3PGEeHu8Jf5p1916wc3sB2M5 oyF8FoQZFargcWcsul5eq+G+syu16SQWcwfi0LExagg2+arho0KYgPz2okT4s+jF2tPS EIqwANYo2yFU8YhrEBgcdxYHj7ZosIMxvUXBz8msc7JUq8UVj8PRwz6T/qhZSW/LQbk4 P7ddOyRaU2h1yZpy8MQfbn9Bmw4xq41eKQWFp1jro8lfnqF6CMcq2JxLqKeeVLhDZF6h 2GHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qt2ImZ2eYhAv4coZDaumxix6zBdtUbP5hfgaqugaakc=; b=pi9NVbZMOpGyVSe2KqarcwJauVGRLEDQx/jnOX3ipOX212C3kecuvGJwSSaC9wKWNF ugI+iZT8qEB3lcClTT6iDGhF57h1qnypVxfrUMKiAku5bIHO8jDq+Wkml4XkVuziBVeW PgICRcRlWoO5zcSG13DJhtsM7JDvCzJuktPBuegcUyR/EM8MT+065BUOdrCD22IU4BHD ub9/JVpKmpuLy//vdGNss6uZwKF7A0lP3GfNqNkT4se2NxsZK/h1eyyyRi894MUoTIyp fEqMvKKRcOZ6E/B+EOXAGMScWM09AUMFMIhIqS+6u9OWRF7TkNu9+9P8cfX6xAQH0/gX jhgA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533On8pWzGZDph9Gl5zSaAGA/P0lCHoDWCSvh0IV87Ldgnh4vN0+ gNjEpp87GCvisBsFdu43p2nSQsmBFIelx0vtDFA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyaXniUp+MpazvaLhAcoQefGyVT3WrEdP9YJtRgMBuZ/Jp2eUI07KOZBXQNPt4Tts7O6Kif4/20wSZbkhwioLk= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4c47:: with SMTP id o7mr3148105lfk.558.1636655799673; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:36:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87ble2czx6.fsf@alyssa.is> <87lfcvn1ln.fsf@alyssa.is> <87bldrn0kh.fsf@alyssa.is> <20210309162556.ctiy3yfp7plkbdqs@x220.qyliss.net> <87o871tqqu.fsf@alyssa.is> <87bl2sp3p3.fsf@alyssa.is> <871r3nq77p.fsf@alyssa.is> In-Reply-To: <871r3nq77p.fsf@alyssa.is> From: Thomas Leonard Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:12:30 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New user getting started questions To: Alyssa Ross Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: CBGWBXUJH2DQPRTVNQXIJLGOPOGF445K X-Message-ID-Hash: CBGWBXUJH2DQPRTVNQXIJLGOPOGF445K X-MailFrom: talex5@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-config-1; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Michael Raskin <7c6f434c@mail.ru>, discuss@spectrum-os.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.4 Precedence: list List-Id: General high-level discussion about Spectrum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 at 11:09, Alyssa Ross wrote: > > Thomas Leonard writes: > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2021 at 12:59, Alyssa Ross wrote: > >> > >> Thomas Leonard writes: > >> > >> > On Wed, 3 Nov 2021 at 11:37, Alyssa Ross wrote: > > [...] > >> >> Also, I've been following some Qubes work recently, and it sounds l= ike > >> >> they might be interested in doing X11 over Wayland in a way that > >> >> wouldn't need special compositor support (and the corresponding > >> >> potential for security bugs). It sounds like it would be a lot of = work > >> >> though, so we'll see=E2=80=A6 > >> > > >> > Isn't that what Sommelier and wayland-proxy-virtwl are both doing > >> > already though? There's no need for any X11 support in the host > >> > compositor with them. > >> > >> Oh I didn't realise that. So the host compositor doesn't have to > >> implement an X11 window manager and speak back to the Xserver, like it > >> does in a normal XWayland setup[1]? > > > > Correct; the proxy acts as the X11 window manager to Xwayland, and > > just talks plain Wayland to the host. In fact, I managed to work > > around several problems with Sway's built-in Xwayland integration by > > using the proxy instead, even on the host (see > > https://roscidus.com/blog/blog/2021/10/30/xwayland/#bonus-features). > > > >> [1]: https://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/ch05.html#sect-X11-Appl= ication-Support-architecture > > Ah, I now realise you explained all of this in your blog post. Sorry > for the silly questions! > > By the way, I'm very curious about "[com] is a SpectrumOS VM I use for > email, etc.". _I_ don't even consider myself to be running Spectrum, > because as far as I'm concerned there's no integrated system to run yet. > So what's in that VM that you consider to be Spectrum? :) Well, I think of it as a spectrum VM, but I guess it has changed a bit! It's based on your demo VM from early 2021, running Wayfire under Sommelier. Except I replaced Sommelier with my proxy, and I removed Wayfire. Instead, it runs "socat vsock-listen:5000 exec:dash" in a loop and I can launch programs inside it from the host by writing to the vsock. e.g. I have a "ff-com" command to launch Firefox in the com VM. It's a bit more Qubes-like than Spectrum really. I also got it to get the applications from the main NixOS repository, as they're more up-to-date, and I replaced the kernel with a newer one because I needed better io_uring support for another project. But your basic build structure and execline boot scripts are still there! It was a useful skeleton, but now I understand how it works, I should probably replace it with something more standard... --=20 talex5 (GitHub/Twitter) http://roscidus.com/blog/ GPG: 5DD5 8D70 899C 454A 966D 6A51 7513 3C8F 94F6 E0CC