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* [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use
@ 2026-08-04 16:41 Alyssa Ross
  2026-08-04 20:58 ` Demi Marie Obenour
  2026-08-05  8:15 ` Valentin Gagarin
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alyssa Ross @ 2026-08-04 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: devel
  Cc: Valentin Gagarin, Demi Marie Obenour, Vaida Plankytė, Yureka,
	colbyt

It's been suggested to me a couple of times recently that having some
statement about AI use in contributions would be helpful, for a couple
of different reasons:

 • It resolves uncertainty contributors may feel about whether their
   AI-assisted contributions will be welcome, since there is a wide
   range of acceptance among open source software projects currently.

 • It teaches people submitting assisted contributions to avoid
   pitfalls that might reduce the success of their contributions
   without otherwise having been obvious to them.

 • It protects against precious reviewer time being spent trying to
   sift through verbose and confusing LLM-generated descriptions,
   which tends to be much less efficient for the reviewer.

I've tried to keep it as simple and minimally invasive as possible,
focusing on remedying specific problems that are likely to come up.
Each expectation has a brief explanation, because I expect people will
be happier following the guidance if they understand the reason for
it, but I've avoided going into too much detail to keep it easy to
read, understand and remember the whole thing.  There's some slight
deliberate ambiguity, because the important thing here is that people
follow the spirit of the expectations.  They don't need to get in the
way in situations where it would obviously make sense to do something
different; for example I can imagine certain situations where it
would be useful to share some LLM-generated prose.

Signed-off-by: Alyssa Ross <hi@alyssa.is>
---
We had a conversation about this on Matrix a little while ago, and I
hope this captures the consensus we had at the time.

I'm CCing everybody who's posted to the list recently (I think — sorry 
if I missed someone), because it's of course important to make sure
there's broad awareness of and agreement on the expectations.

I expect to apply this on top of my nav_order renumbering patch from
earlier, so this would show up in the documentation index after 
"Communication channels" and before "Sending Your Patch", since it's 
important context for people to have before sending their first patch.

 Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc | 23 +++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)
 create mode 100644 Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc

diff --git a/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc b/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7535578e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
@@ -0,0 +1,23 @@
+= Use of AI in Spectrum contributions
+:page-nav_order: 150
+
+// SPDX-FileCopyrightText: 2026 Alyssa Ross <hi@alyssa.is>
+// SPDX-License-Identifier: GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-or-later OR CC-BY-SA-4.0
+
+Non-trivial Large Language Model (LLM) output in Spectrum contributions should
+be clearly marked as such.
+This is important context for reviewers, because humans and LLMs are prone to
+different kinds of mistakes.
+
+LLM-generated prose is discouraged.
+It tends to be overly verbose, and can be confusing because misunderstandings or
+false assumptions tend to be more difficult to spot in prose from LLMs than from
+humans.
+
+Contributors should ensure they understand and are able to answer questions about
+contributions they submit, in their own words.
+It's generally unhelpful to send LLM output in response to questions, because it
+can be expected that reviewers can ask LLMs questions themselves if LLM-generated
+answers would be useful to them.
+If a reviewer asks a contributor a question, it's because they want that
+contributor's answer, not an LLM's.

base-commit: 9dc81e02d6382ef7fc89b9bb246a71ff0fcc68ff
-- 
2.55.0


^ permalink raw reply related	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use
  2026-08-04 16:41 [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use Alyssa Ross
@ 2026-08-04 20:58 ` Demi Marie Obenour
  2026-08-05 16:23   ` Alyssa Ross
  2026-08-05  8:15 ` Valentin Gagarin
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Demi Marie Obenour @ 2026-08-04 20:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alyssa Ross, devel; +Cc: Valentin Gagarin, Vaida Plankytė, Yureka, colbyt


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4029 bytes --]

On 8/4/26 12:41, Alyssa Ross wrote:
> It's been suggested to me a couple of times recently that having some
> statement about AI use in contributions would be helpful, for a couple
> of different reasons:
> 
>  • It resolves uncertainty contributors may feel about whether their
>    AI-assisted contributions will be welcome, since there is a wide
>    range of acceptance among open source software projects currently.
> 
>  • It teaches people submitting assisted contributions to avoid
>    pitfalls that might reduce the success of their contributions
>    without otherwise having been obvious to them.
> 
>  • It protects against precious reviewer time being spent trying to
>    sift through verbose and confusing LLM-generated descriptions,
>    which tends to be much less efficient for the reviewer.
> 
> I've tried to keep it as simple and minimally invasive as possible,
> focusing on remedying specific problems that are likely to come up.
> Each expectation has a brief explanation, because I expect people will
> be happier following the guidance if they understand the reason for
> it, but I've avoided going into too much detail to keep it easy to
> read, understand and remember the whole thing.  There's some slight
> deliberate ambiguity, because the important thing here is that people
> follow the spirit of the expectations.  They don't need to get in the
> way in situations where it would obviously make sense to do something
> different; for example I can imagine certain situations where it
> would be useful to share some LLM-generated prose.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Alyssa Ross <hi@alyssa.is>
> ---
> We had a conversation about this on Matrix a little while ago, and I
> hope this captures the consensus we had at the time.
> 
> I'm CCing everybody who's posted to the list recently (I think — sorry 
> if I missed someone), because it's of course important to make sure
> there's broad awareness of and agreement on the expectations.
> 
> I expect to apply this on top of my nav_order renumbering patch from
> earlier, so this would show up in the documentation index after 
> "Communication channels" and before "Sending Your Patch", since it's 
> important context for people to have before sending their first patch.
> 
>  Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc | 23 +++++++++++++++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)
>  create mode 100644 Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc b/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
> new file mode 100644
> index 00000000..7535578e
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
> @@ -0,0 +1,23 @@
> += Use of AI in Spectrum contributions
> +:page-nav_order: 150
> +
> +// SPDX-FileCopyrightText: 2026 Alyssa Ross <hi@alyssa.is>
> +// SPDX-License-Identifier: GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-or-later OR CC-BY-SA-4.0
> +
> +Non-trivial Large Language Model (LLM) output in Spectrum contributions should
> +be clearly marked as such.
> +This is important context for reviewers, because humans and LLMs are prone to
> +different kinds of mistakes.
> +
> +LLM-generated prose is discouraged.
> +It tends to be overly verbose, and can be confusing because misunderstandings or
> +false assumptions tend to be more difficult to spot in prose from LLMs than from
> +humans.> +
> +Contributors should ensure they understand and are able to answer questions about
> +contributions they submit, in their own words.
> +It's generally unhelpful to send LLM output in response to questions, because it
> +can be expected that reviewers can ask LLMs questions themselves if LLM-generated
> +answers would be useful to them.
> +If a reviewer asks a contributor a question, it's because they want that
> +contributor's answer, not an LLM's.
> 
> base-commit: 9dc81e02d6382ef7fc89b9bb246a71ff0fcc68ff

What about LLM translation and LLM spelling/grammar checkers?
-- 
Sincerely,
Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use
  2026-08-04 16:41 [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use Alyssa Ross
  2026-08-04 20:58 ` Demi Marie Obenour
@ 2026-08-05  8:15 ` Valentin Gagarin
  2026-08-21 16:08   ` Alyssa Ross
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Valentin Gagarin @ 2026-08-05  8:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alyssa Ross, devel

I like the nature of the argument, but from my own experience would 
suggest a different policy: don't submit LLM output.

One piece of rationale behind that is in essence the same as yours, 
something along the lines of "contributors are assumed to understand 
what they're writing".  But even that still feels vague, because of 
course one can understand a given LLM output and package that as a 
contribution.  Therefore I would like to sharpen that line of reasoning 
before committing to that.

The other piece of rationale has more weight for me: you wouldn't submit 
search engine output verbatim either.  LLM output is qualitatively the 
same as generated code, plus randomness.  Why would you check that into 
version control?  That would also still need a constructive formulation 
for people further from this bubble to make sense immediately, but do 
you see what I'm getting at?

Certainly we should emphasize the part that sending LLM output 
needlessly shifts more burden onto reviewers, and the threshold to 
consider that spam is very easy to cross.

This deliberately leaves open which tools you use and how you use them 
to arrive at your contributions.  Another thing also worth mentioning is 
that the contributor may be liable for all the legal implications of 
labeling LLM output as one's own contribution.  What if a particular 
piece turns out to violate copyright?  For that reason, maintainers 
should therefore not let into their codebase what is marked as LLM 
output, and otherwise take authorship claims for granted.

But again, I agree with the spirit of your proposal, which to me reads 
like that the project's communication channels are for people, period. 
Still figuring out how to state it so that spirit gets across despite 
cultural differences.  Maybe this would even allow us to bypass the LLM 
debate in documentation altogether, ideally without having to re-explain 
why e.g. checking in any sort of machine output is not a good idea in 
general.

Thinking about it a bit more, the underlying theme is actually that of 
engineering, contribution, and communication culture.  It's easy to get 
along with people who happen to share it, but it's a lot of work for 
both sides when implicit assumptions don't match.  We may be even better 
served than by just policing LLM use if we state at least some of the 
core assumptions which drive the project, provide some guidance for how 
to soak up that culture, and ideally explicitly state positive examples. 
  That may substantially reduce the need to play catch-up with instances 
of the same phenomenon.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use
  2026-08-04 20:58 ` Demi Marie Obenour
@ 2026-08-05 16:23   ` Alyssa Ross
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alyssa Ross @ 2026-08-05 16:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Demi Marie Obenour
  Cc: devel, Valentin Gagarin, Vaida Plankytė, Yureka, colbyt

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4872 bytes --]

On Tue, Aug 04, 2026 at 04:58:45PM -0400, Demi Marie Obenour wrote:
> On 8/4/26 12:41, Alyssa Ross wrote:
> > It's been suggested to me a couple of times recently that having some
> > statement about AI use in contributions would be helpful, for a couple
> > of different reasons:
> >
> >  • It resolves uncertainty contributors may feel about whether their
> >    AI-assisted contributions will be welcome, since there is a wide
> >    range of acceptance among open source software projects currently.
> >
> >  • It teaches people submitting assisted contributions to avoid
> >    pitfalls that might reduce the success of their contributions
> >    without otherwise having been obvious to them.
> >
> >  • It protects against precious reviewer time being spent trying to
> >    sift through verbose and confusing LLM-generated descriptions,
> >    which tends to be much less efficient for the reviewer.
> >
> > I've tried to keep it as simple and minimally invasive as possible,
> > focusing on remedying specific problems that are likely to come up.
> > Each expectation has a brief explanation, because I expect people will
> > be happier following the guidance if they understand the reason for
> > it, but I've avoided going into too much detail to keep it easy to
> > read, understand and remember the whole thing.  There's some slight
> > deliberate ambiguity, because the important thing here is that people
> > follow the spirit of the expectations.  They don't need to get in the
> > way in situations where it would obviously make sense to do something
> > different; for example I can imagine certain situations where it
> > would be useful to share some LLM-generated prose.
> >
> > Signed-off-by: Alyssa Ross <hi@alyssa.is>
> > ---
> > We had a conversation about this on Matrix a little while ago, and I
> > hope this captures the consensus we had at the time.
> >
> > I'm CCing everybody who's posted to the list recently (I think — sorry
> > if I missed someone), because it's of course important to make sure
> > there's broad awareness of and agreement on the expectations.
> >
> > I expect to apply this on top of my nav_order renumbering patch from
> > earlier, so this would show up in the documentation index after
> > "Communication channels" and before "Sending Your Patch", since it's
> > important context for people to have before sending their first patch.
> >
> >  Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc | 23 +++++++++++++++++++++++
> >  1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)
> >  create mode 100644 Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
> >
> > diff --git a/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc b/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
> > new file mode 100644
> > index 00000000..7535578e
> > --- /dev/null
> > +++ b/Documentation/doc/contributing/ai.adoc
> > @@ -0,0 +1,23 @@
> > += Use of AI in Spectrum contributions
> > +:page-nav_order: 150
> > +
> > +// SPDX-FileCopyrightText: 2026 Alyssa Ross <hi@alyssa.is>
> > +// SPDX-License-Identifier: GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-or-later OR CC-BY-SA-4.0
> > +
> > +Non-trivial Large Language Model (LLM) output in Spectrum contributions should
> > +be clearly marked as such.
> > +This is important context for reviewers, because humans and LLMs are prone to
> > +different kinds of mistakes.
> > +
> > +LLM-generated prose is discouraged.
> > +It tends to be overly verbose, and can be confusing because misunderstandings or
> > +false assumptions tend to be more difficult to spot in prose from LLMs than from
> > +humans.> +
> > +Contributors should ensure they understand and are able to answer questions about
> > +contributions they submit, in their own words.
> > +It's generally unhelpful to send LLM output in response to questions, because it
> > +can be expected that reviewers can ask LLMs questions themselves if LLM-generated
> > +answers would be useful to them.
> > +If a reviewer asks a contributor a question, it's because they want that
> > +contributor's answer, not an LLM's.
> >
> > base-commit: 9dc81e02d6382ef7fc89b9bb246a71ff0fcc68ff
>
> What about LLM translation and LLM spelling/grammar checkers?

I think it would be difficult to argue that spelling/grammar checkers
are non-trivial LLM output or produce LLM-generated prose, no?

Translation I think is covered by "LLM-generated prose is discouraged."
It's not forbidden, so people can use it if they really need to, but
it's probably unhelpful in comparison to posting human generated text,
even if that's in another language.  That allows others who speak the
language to understand the original, and non-speakers without access to
a human speaker can use translation tools themselves, and with the
original text even have the option to use multiple if one tool produces
results that seem unclear or implausible.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use
  2026-08-05  8:15 ` Valentin Gagarin
@ 2026-08-21 16:08   ` Alyssa Ross
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Alyssa Ross @ 2026-08-21 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Valentin Gagarin; +Cc: devel

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7035 bytes --]

On Wed, Aug 05, 2026 at 10:15:06AM +0200, Valentin Gagarin wrote:
> I like the nature of the argument, but from my own experience would
> suggest a different policy: don't submit LLM output.
>
> One piece of rationale behind that is in essence the same as yours,
> something along the lines of "contributors are assumed to understand
> what they're writing".  But even that still feels vague, because of
> course one can understand a given LLM output and package that as a
> contribution.  Therefore I would like to sharpen that line of reasoning
> before committing to that.

I don't think this is a feasible position for us to take into the
future.  Our goal is to create a secure desktop operating system, and in
the field of computer security we are currently facing a new reality
where an automated vulnerability discovery and exploitation machine
exists.  As the cost of vulnerability discovery and exploitation has
sharply declined, the task of delivering a "secure enough" system has
become much more difficult.  If the cost of exploitation reduces while
the cost of defense is held constant, eventually it's not going to be
realistic to even try to defend.  That doesn't mean we have to lower our
quality standards and fill Spectrum with slop, but it does mean that we
have to be open to new possibilities enabled by automation when they
would let us improve defensive robustness.  More on that below.

For other kinds of intellectual work, slower, but more thoughtful, 100%
human development is a tradeoff that can be worth making!  100%
artisanally human‐created security software that is eventually outpaced
by ever more efficient attackers, though, is not useful to anybody.  (Am
I happy to find myself in this position?  No, but it is what it is.)

> The other piece of rationale has more weight for me: you wouldn't submit
> search engine output verbatim either.  LLM output is qualitatively the
> same as generated code, plus randomness.  Why would you check that into
> version control?  That would also still need a constructive formulation
> for people further from this bubble to make sense immediately, but do
> you see what I'm getting at?

I've been thinking about this point in particular a lot over the last
couple of weeks.  I think it comes down to current form of collaboration
being source code, and so we expect LLMs to meet us where we're at, by
producing source code of equivalent quality to what we'd expect of
humans.

One can imagine a future world where our collaboration form has changed
from program source code to a formal specification of a program, and
LLMs are used like a compiler to generate source code implementing that
specification.  (This is very appealing for security software, because
the generated code could be written in a way that it proves certain
security properties hold — this is possible today, but it's mostly too
expensive for humans to do.  It might even be that this sort of method
is both the only way to produce software that is robust against ever
more capable adversaries, and only feasible with "AI" automation!)

In that world, we don't care about the specifics of the source code,
much like we don't much care about the machine code produced by a
compiler, and we just track the specification in version control.
That's quite a way off, though.  For now, we want source code to be our
canonical collaboration form, and we care about the exact content of
that source code, and we want it to be deterministic, so we keep source
code in version control.

> Certainly we should emphasize the part that sending LLM output
> needlessly shifts more burden onto reviewers, and the threshold to
> consider that spam is very easy to cross.

It doesn't necessarily do that.  One can use an LLM to produce the exact
same diff that could have been typed by hand.  Whether an LLM is used or
not, contributors have a responsibility not to overwhelm reviewers with
poor quality contributions.  LLMs do make it easier to do that,
especially without realising, so we might want to call attention to
that.

> This deliberately leaves open which tools you use and how you use them
> to arrive at your contributions.  Another thing also worth mentioning is
> that the contributor may be liable for all the legal implications of
> labeling LLM output as one's own contribution.  What if a particular
> piece turns out to violate copyright?  For that reason, maintainers
> should therefore not let into their codebase what is marked as LLM
> output, and otherwise take authorship claims for granted.

Yes, contributors have a responsibility to ensure (attested via the DCO)
that they have the necessary rights to submit their contributions.
Again this is the case regardless of how the contributions are produced.
I'd expect that most Spectrum contributions would be Spectrum‐specific
and (strongly encouraged by me to be) small enough that it would be
implausible for them to be substantially copying any prior creative
work.

> But again, I agree with the spirit of your proposal, which to me reads
> like that the project's communication channels are for people, period.
> Still figuring out how to state it so that spirit gets across despite
> cultural differences.  Maybe this would even allow us to bypass the LLM
> debate in documentation altogether, ideally without having to re-explain
> why e.g. checking in any sort of machine output is not a good idea in
> general.

If, some time in the future, a personable robot starts identifying and
fixing problems, without being extremely annoying, forgetful and
time‐sucking to interact with in the way that today's technology is, I'm
not going to reject those fixes!  We don't have that today, though, and
experience from other projects shows that contributors are not
necessarily good at realising that, hence the part about generated prose
being the most prescriptive part of my proposal.  But my hypothetical
robot demonstrates to me that "for people, period" is not quite the
principle I'm coming from.  We're probably close enough for the time
being, though.

> Thinking about it a bit more, the underlying theme is actually that of
> engineering, contribution, and communication culture.  It's easy to get
> along with people who happen to share it, but it's a lot of work for
> both sides when implicit assumptions don't match.  We may be even better
> served than by just policing LLM use if we state at least some of the
> core assumptions which drive the project, provide some guidance for how
> to soak up that culture, and ideally explicitly state positive examples.
>   That may substantially reduce the need to play catch-up with instances
> of the same phenomenon.

Yes, it would certainly be good if we could communicate the desired
culture effectively enough that people (and LLMs) can pick up what to do
from the principles without needing to be instructed on every specific
instance!

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2026-08-21 16:08 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2026-08-04 16:41 [PATCH] Documentation: document expectations around AI use Alyssa Ross
2026-08-04 20:58 ` Demi Marie Obenour
2026-08-05 16:23   ` Alyssa Ross
2026-08-05  8:15 ` Valentin Gagarin
2026-08-21 16:08   ` Alyssa Ross

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